Yes but given the fact that you can have all of that with a new mac which can run windows, linux and macos other than the fact that you can build a PC from scratch or get one for 300 bucks....
What’s tough to is build a PC that matches Apple’s Mac specs, hardware feature for hardware feature, and get the price much lower than a Mac.
That’s just hardware. OS X is arguably superior to Windows XP/Vista, so there is extra value in the OS and application requirements.
But, hey-- why buy a Lexus or BMW or any other quality automobile with a Kia Rio will do exactly the same thing for one third the price?
I agree with you, but the argument is always made that you can get a sub 400 dollar PC, or you can build one. People also seem to forget though that those 400 dollar pc’s are subsidized by all the software trials and such that are preinstalled.
Yes but given the fact that you can have all of that with a new mac which can run windows, linux and macos other than the fact that you can build a PC from scratch or get one for 300 bucks....
What’s tough to is build a PC that matches Apple’s Mac specs, hardware feature for hardware feature, and get the price much lower than a Mac.
That’s just hardware. OS X is arguably superior to Windows XP/Vista, so there is extra value in the OS and application requirements.
But, hey-- why buy a Lexus or BMW or any other quality automobile with a Kia Rio will do exactly the same thing for one third the price?
That statement is a slap to the face to us PC builders. Trust me, the parts we pick aren’t “Kia Rio’s”. They’re high end, quality parts.
Sure, all PC cases out on the after market don’t have (Just naming one Mac hardware feature) slot loading hard drive compartments like the Mac Pro does. But that doesn’t make the whole PC build a “cheap car”.
The parts we use are solid, and trusted parts that have impeccable performance. Underestimating the quality and value of those parts is an insult to our intelligence.
I’m not mad, or anything. I’m just telling you this so you know why many PC builders and users can get angry when people criticize their machine’s worth.
That statement is a slap to the face to us PC builders. Trust me, the parts we pick aren’t “Kia Rio’s”. They’re high end, quality parts.
You gotta speak for yourself. Here in the islands we have a lot of guys who build their own PCs and sell them to businesses-- they cost about the same as cheaper Dells, Gateways, Compaqs, and use the same parts.
We’re not talking high end gaming machines. We’re talking plain old PCs that get used in business.
Sure, all PC cases out on the after market don’t have (Just naming one Mac hardware feature) slot loading hard drive compartments like the Mac Pro does. But that doesn’t make the whole PC build a “cheap car”.
Of course not, but that’s not the point. What’s the cost of a Dell, Gateway, Compaq or HP with the same hardware as a Mac? It’s about the same as a Mac, right?
Ok, then build it from scratch to match. What do you get and what did it cost?
The parts we use are solid, and trusted parts that have impeccable performance. Underestimating the quality and value of those parts is an insult to our intelligence.
You’re probably not speaking for the whole of the “build it yourself” community. I know so many who build PCs and tell people it’s cheaper but in reality it’s merely a lower price because the hardware is also low quality, cheapie hardware-- it’s hard to find that on a Mac.
I’m not mad, or anything. I’m just telling you this so you know why many PC builders and users can get angry when people criticize their machine’s worth.
FWIW, I know a few folks who build performance machines from scratch-- servers, gaming PCs, and so on-- they’re still not cheap… uh, excuse me-- inexpensive.
I’m not saying they’re cheaper than Macs. I’m saying they’re not jalopies.
I just built a PC with amazing parts that perform outstandingly, and the total price was $950.
The price difference isn’t all that different from a comparable Mac. But when you try to compare it to an eMachine/Gateway, Dell, HP, the difference is isn’t even register-able. In fact, there’s no comparison. All of those OEM manufacturers I listed don’t even use the brand name and model parts I use.
All I’m saying is, not all PCs out there are “Kia’s”
EDIT: I have a feeling you think I’m trying to diminish the Mac’s value. I’m not, I’m just saying quality PCs can be made with enthusiast parts. The Gigabyte motherboard I chose can except 16gigs of RAM. 16. You won’t find that on an OEM built machine from the PC manufacturers.
What is “Quality Parts” ?. And yes by the way I do have an RX 330 LEXUS and a FORD EXPLORER 2007 and any one who tells you that LEXUS is more reliable than any other car is just kidding you. MAC is sleek definitive the closest you can get to that in PC world is SONY VAIO. Price is no longer is a major difference if you are buying ready made stuff as Apple has dropped its hardware prices. But I agree with the guys who build their own PC - there is a definite a good savings going your own way.
As for the gentleman who tell us that you can run multiple OS on a MAC and that is a good feature - please, we had this feature for years in the PC world even before parallel was born. It is ironic but Microsoft has built the virtual technology within the OS 2003 Server - to allow the engineers to try out different configurations in different virtual servers before rolling out changes in production.
As for the gentleman who tell us that you can run multiple OS on a MAC and that is a good feature - please, we had this feature for years in the PC world even before parallel was born. It is ironic but Microsoft has built the virtual technology within the OS 2003 Server - to allow the engineers to try out different configurations in different virtual servers before rolling out changes in production.
Multiple operating systems on a computer is nothing new. Having it on a desktop is not new, either, Mac or PC. However, there’s is nothing in the Windows or PC world that allows Windows, Mac OS, Linux, or whatever to run on the same desktop machine-- except a Mac.
Jonny_m - Of course you can run multiple OS on a Windows or PC Machine. I have a windows Box that has MAC OS, OS/2, LINUX and Win XP.
Sorry, but you missed the point. Those are NOT desktop systems in the sense that an average user can buy one and it’ll run all major operating systems with ease. The Mac will. A standard PC will not. Linux can install fine and run well in a dual boot set up on a PC, right alongside any recent version of Windows, but it is not for the faint of heart. And it still won’t run Mac OS X. Why? It’s not a Mac. Running OS X on a generic PC is both illegal and a cumbersome hack.
Running Windows, Linux, BSD, et al, on Parallels within OS X is a piece of cake and works so well as to put the other options to shame.
so what is your point ?… Why would a MAC user want to run windows any ways?. After all we MAC users have the best OS.
Secondly your opinion that it is not for the faint of heart is completely untrue and you are misleading the public. Have you actually installed SUSE LINUX from NOVEL on a windows machine or UBUNTU ?. Give it a try and you will be surprised.
And as far as MAC is concerned it does not come pre-loaded with WIN XP or VISTA. You still need to go out and buy it and INSTALL It. Installing LINUX UBUNTU, NOVEL SUSE or XP is not a complicated thing any more than installing MAC. Gone are the days where you had to hunt down for drivers etc.
I am not sure about the legal points but Apple has paid MS for the privilege of doing that. MS does not need to do that. Secondly you need to remember that MAC OS is not owned by Apple other than the AQUA Interface and underlying engine. The under pinning BSD OS is open source and Apple realized a long time ago that they were not cut for developing an OS to compete with Windows from scratch so they took the short cut and used a tried and tested UNIX OS - this is probably one of the correct moves on Apples parts.
so what is your point ?… Why would a MAC user want to run windows any ways?. After all we MAC users have the best OS.
Looks like a newbie to Mac360; probably from the Windows world. It’s spelled “Mac” not “MAC.”
Secondly your opinion that it is not for the faint of heart is completely untrue and you are misleading the public. Have you actually installed SUSE LINUX from NOVEL on a windows machine or UBUNTU ?. Give it a try and you will be surprised.
Installing SUSE or Ubuntu is a pain compared to installing Mac OS X. Linux is mostly free and still can’t get to 1% of desktop usage. That says something about ‘ease of use.’ Rather, ‘lack of.’
And as far as MAC is concerned it does not come pre-loaded with WIN XP or VISTA. You still need to go out and buy it and INSTALL It. Installing LINUX UBUNTU, NOVEL SUSE or XP is not a complicated thing any more than installing MAC. Gone are the days where you had to hunt down for drivers etc.
Stop. I’m calling my dad. The point is? Sorry, even Windows users have to hunt down drivers sometimes. Ditto for Linux users. How about Mac users? Yep. Sometimes.
I am not sure about the legal points but Apple has paid MS for the privilege of doing that. MS does not need to do that. Secondly you need to remember that MAC OS is not owned by Apple other than the AQUA Interface and underlying engine. The under pinning BSD OS is open source and Apple realized a long time ago that they were not cut for developing an OS to compete with Windows from scratch so they took the short cut and used a tried and tested UNIX OS - this is probably one of the correct moves on Apples parts.
Your knowledge is really, really thin here, dude. Apple has not paid Microsoft for any privilege regarding Windows or Mac OS. In fact, it was Microsoft which licensed certain aspects of the early Mac OS from Apple, and since then paid Apple handsomely to settle various and sundry intellectual property issues-- not the other way around. And, yes, believe it or not, Mac OS X is “owned” by Apple, however, it is comprised of many parts, some of which are licensed by Apple. Guess what? The same is true for Windows, and the Baskin-Robbins 31 Flavors OS, Linux.
Remember, dude. It’s Mac OS X, not “MAC OS”. Newbies and Windows switchers often make that kind of mistake.
Jonny_m - Of course you can run multiple OS on a Windows or PC Machine. I have a windows Box that has MAC OS, OS/2, LINUX and Win XP.
Sorry, but you missed the point. Those are NOT desktop systems in the sense that an average user can buy one and it’ll run all major operating systems with ease. The Mac will. A standard PC will not. Linux can install fine and run well in a dual boot set up on a PC, right alongside any recent version of Windows, but it is not for the faint of heart. And it still won’t run Mac OS X. Why? It’s not a Mac. Running OS X on a generic PC is both illegal and a cumbersome hack.
Running Windows, Linux, BSD, et al, on Parallels within OS X is a piece of cake and works so well as to put the other options to shame.
See, if one of the “other options” is installing Windows/Linux/BSD/etc on x86 PC hardware, I would have to disagree with you.
VMWare and Parallels aren’t full system replacers. They’re excellent system-wide wrapper-like apps that do an amazing job at running Windows/Linux/BSD/etc apps. But it will never replace an actual x86 PC machine. It’s the ultimate Mac to PC OS environment integrator though. And it’s certainly an incentive to get a Mac.
And regarding the question asking what “Quality parts” are. The quality part’s I’m talking about are parts that have a history of being reliable and stable. They’re from companies that are enthusiast based Like OCZ (Memory), DFI/Gigabyte/ASUS (Motherboards), Seagate (Hard Drives. They’re more mainstream, but they have a history of being reliable and long lasting hard drives), Antec (Power supply), Zalman (Heatsink manufacturer), and so on.
so what is your point ?… Why would a MAC user want to run windows any ways?. After all we MAC users have the best OS.
Looks like a newbie to Mac360; probably from the Windows world. It’s spelled “Mac” not “MAC.”
Looks like - I think you should get your facts right. Just for the records, I started my IT career on an Apple IIe with C/PM OS programming dbaseII, Visicalc and 6502 assembler and I continue to do be a developer at heart. Well what about you ?
Secondly your opinion that it is not for the faint of heart is completely untrue and you are misleading the public. Have you actually installed SUSE LINUX from NOVEL on a windows machine or UBUNTU ?. Give it a try and you will be surprised.
Installing SUSE or Ubuntu is a pain compared to installing Mac OS X. Linux is mostly free and still can’t get to 1% of desktop usage. That says something about ‘ease of use.’ Rather, ‘lack of.’
Installing LINUX is a breeze but if you lack common sense it does become difficult. Just the fact that something is free does not have to appeal to the mass. LINUX was never designed to replace the desktop in the first place - get your facts right.
And as far as MAC is concerned it does not come pre-loaded with WIN XP or VISTA. You still need to go out and buy it and INSTALL It. Installing LINUX UBUNTU, NOVEL SUSE or XP is not a complicated thing any more than installing MAC. Gone are the days where you had to hunt down for drivers etc.
Stop. I’m calling my dad. The point is? Sorry, even Windows users have to hunt down drivers sometimes. Ditto for Linux users. How about Mac users? Yep. Sometimes.
Hunt down?.... I think you are still in the 90s.
I am not sure about the legal points but Apple has paid MS for the privilege of doing that. MS does not need to do that. Secondly you need to remember that MAC OS is not owned by Apple other than the AQUA Interface and underlying engine. The under pinning BSD OS is open source and Apple realized a long time ago that they were not cut for developing an OS to compete with Windows from scratch so they took the short cut and used a tried and tested UNIX OS - this is probably one of the correct moves on Apples parts.
Your knowledge is really, really thin here, dude. Apple has not paid Microsoft for any privilege regarding Windows or Mac OS. In fact, it was Microsoft which licensed certain aspects of the early Mac OS from Apple, and since then paid Apple handsomely to settle various and sundry intellectual property issues-- not the other way around. And, yes, believe it or not, Mac OS X is “owned” by Apple, however, it is comprised of many parts, some of which are licensed by Apple. Guess what? The same is true for Windows, and the Baskin-Robbins 31 Flavors OS, Linux.
Apple did sign an agreement to obtain the source code of Microsoft Windows OS and I would know this because I traverse the corridors of Redmond Campus. Apple does not own the underlying OS of MAC OS X which is BSD period.
Remember, dude. It’s Mac OS X, not “MAC OS”. Newbies and Windows switchers often make that kind of mistake.
I like to layout it MAC OS not Mac OS X… once again do not get personal.
Enough already. No one is making any points with me on this one. I’m making the points now:
1 - No, I’m not living in the 90s, either, and yes, I have to hunt down drivers for Windows, Linux, and from time to time, Mac OS X.
2 - It is “Mac OS X” and not “MAC.”
3 - Yes, hodari, you are a newbie to Mac360.
4 - Common sense has nothing to do with installing Linux on a PC. Depending on the PC, the distro, peripherals, etc., it can be a nightmare. Such is not the case with OS X.
5 - Signing an agreement is not the same thing as paying Microsoft. Keep your facts straight.
6 - Apple owns Mac OS X, as stated, and licenses various parts of the OS package from other parties-- same for Microsoft Windows and Linux.
7 - My PC career started on CP/M machines, including dBase II, VisiCalc, WordStar, assembler, etc., long before there was a Mac or a PC running DOS or Windows. Don’t mess with me. I’m older than dirt.
I guess that phrase motivated me to register and post. I have recently added a mac to my repertoire, primarily to use a particular application that is not available on Windows. I have Leopard running on a new Mac Book Pro. Here are my experiences so far.
My Windows XP box is more stable. Yes, the XP box does occasionally crash, but when it does, it only *very* rarely brings down the OS with it. So far, I am actually experiencing more program crashes on the mac, and when it does crash, it crashes the OS far more often than the XP box. That little spinning ball, more often than not, means my MacBook will require a hard reboot.
So far, the Macbook running Leopard is not some miracle computer that out-performs Windows, as some of the fanboys like to promote. It’s actually just the opposite.
